You posed the question of why there is so much "hate" when people try and justify their beliefs with faith.
The answer to your question is really quite simple: faith is the worst possible system for coming to knowledge.
Or, to put it another way, faith is the excuse people use when they don't have good reasons for believing the things they believe. To "have faith" is to be sincerely arrogant. This is not attribute anyone should ever seek.
I believe that what a person believes MATTERS. Because our beliefs are the gatekeepers of our actions - they directly inform how we behave. And if we want to put our good intentions to positive effect then we must have a good system for making determinations about reality.
There is not a single position - not a single belief - that can't be justified using "faith". And people use faith to justify all sorts of terrible ideas. For example, when the daughter of Travis and Wenona Rossiter became sick they sincerely thought that prayer would cure their daughter (based upon James 5:15, Luke 8:50, etc.). They believed that taking her to the doctor would show a lack of faith. Unknown to them, their daughter had diabetes and after suffering two weeks in the most horrific agony she finally passed away.
Sadly, a simple shot of insulin would have saved her life.
It's not that the Rossiter's we bad people. It's just that they had a bad understanding of how reality works - because of faith.And faith is used - sincerely - by millions of people to justify all sorts of horrible things. People use "faith" to try and suppress the rights of homosexuals. People use "faith" to try and suppress the rights of women. People use "faith" to try and suppress other people's religious beliefs and rights to freedom of speech.
If you care about the well-being of yourself and others, if you care about personal freedoms like speech, religion, equality, etc. then you have a solemn duty to try and believe as many true things - and as few false things - as possible. And you have a duty to have good metrics for discriminating between the two.
And therein lies the problem, because faith is the worst possible system for coming to knowledge. It can only ever be right by accident. And, all too often, the bad ideas it produces harms people in horrible ways. The Crusaders had "faith". The leaders of the Spanish Inquisition had "faith". And ISIS has "faith".
Far superior qualities are intellectual honesty, epistemic humility, and a desire to know what is true. These are the backbone of science and reason. To make sure that our preconceptions aren't misconceptions.
Where as faith - unjustified belief - is the exact opposite. It is arrogant, close minded, and dogmatic. It's directly responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history - and is responsible for most of the current human rights violations going on today - and that, my friend, is why I HATE IT when people try and use faith to justify their beliefs.
-CL
Coded Logic
JoinedPosts by Coded Logic
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Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?
by Viviane inseveral times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
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Coded Logic
I wrote this as a PM to budbayview in response to their comment on this thread but I figured I should share it here too for the benefit of everyone else: -
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Is anything holy?
by Half banana inis anything holy?.
i would maintain that holiness can only come from the attitude of people ascribing something as holy.
holiness never comes from the "holy" object, spirit or humans described as being holy..
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Coded Logic
Holy: specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated
This first definition meets the OP as the "holiness" is applied and is not intrinsic.
Holy: having a spiritually pure quality:
I'm not sure I know what "spiritually pure" means. I'm assuming it refers to the motives and actions of thinking agents that meet some sort of standard. Though, what metric is used for that standard - and how you tell "spiritually pure" actions from "spiritually impure" actions - is beyond me. But something tells me it's going to be an entirely subjective and extremely broad standard.
I do quite like this definition though. Probably comes closest to my use of the word -
Holy: inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress:
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YOU MIGHT BE A J.W.
by brandnew inif getting ready means putting on a suit........ you might be a j.w.. if going out to the field has nothing to do with grass, baseball diamonds, or football ......... you might be a j.w.. please continue my friends.......i know ya got some.....; ).
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Coded Logic
If you've ever tried to meet strangers at 4:00 in the morning at a truck stop and craigslist isn't involved . . . you might be a JW. -
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For Sale: Magic Sandwich
by Coded Logic ini am happy to report to everyone on this site that i have discovered a magic sandwichtm that cures cancer.
for a small one-time payment of your entire life of thursday nights, sunday afternoons, and recruitment work on saturday mornings - it can be yours!
for your peace of mind, i have provided answers to some commonly asked questions:.
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Coded Logic
Questions from the Readers:
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Can I choose the ingredients in my own magic sandwich? Is there any room for individuality at all?
-Stuckinarut2
We offer a diverse amount of selections with the Magic Sandwich. Some choose to have water with their Magic Sandwich. While others try H20. And many of the younger ones today enjoy their Magic Sandwiches with dihydrogen-oxide. There is no end to the tasty selections we offer with the Magic Sandwich.
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I had a friend who tried a magic sandwich but when he took a bite he found it to be totally . . . filling. In fact . . . it cure(d) him . . . (from) sickness!
-HB
This is the experience of millions today. Not only does the Magic Sandwich satiate your hunger - it also cures you of cancer! What a truly happy group of people the Magic Sandwich eaters are.
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I am gluten intolerant. Is there a Magic Sandwich for an honest-hearted person like myself?
- Great Teacher
Many in the past were weighed down by the evils of this world like "gluten intolerance" and "peanut allergies" but, having consumed the Magic Sandwich, the Magic Sandwich eaters have made themselves clean. Surely an honest-hearted person like yourself, after receiving this lifesaving gift, would not choose to complain and mutter about any minor discomforts one might experience after eating the Magic Sandwich.
Will you produce a video with a singing sandwich bag?
-sir82
Today, there are many "false marketers" and "misleading advertisers" who seek to separate you from your money by making bold claims and slick content. But, all too often, people are disappointed after they purchase these "miracle" cures. Unlike these deceivers, we don't need internet memes and viral videos to sell the Magic Sandwich. Because the Magic Sandwich can actually do what it claims. We are truly blessed by this food.
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Evolution - Myths and Evidence
by maksutov ini have nearly finished writing my 'apostate' book, which i will soon be publishing as a free e-book.
here is an excerpt from it on the subject of evolution and the misconceptions about it held by jws.
sorry it's a bit long, but i would appreciate any feedback.
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Coded Logic
Evolution is compatible with creation by a supreme being.
How have you determined this? I know of no examples of supreme beings evolving or causing other things to evolve. Can you please explain your methodology and research that has led you to this conclusion?
Other than that one statement, I think this is a great resource for those facing common objections to evolution.
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Leave truth - catch AIDS???
by JEMIMAH inwe had a laugh last weekend at our s.a.dthe visiting speaker was from the london bethel (bcm)during the last talk he was trying to encourage the bros not to read non society lit.
the example he uses was of a m/s bro who used to really study his wtwell for a sunday, however he occasionally used secular sources to back up his research.. our bethel speaker in order to prove how wrong this was explained very quickly that because of this secular research, "this brother fell away and caught aids".
the brothers and sisters in the audience where very shocked at the folly of our ex-brother.
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Coded Logic
Moral of the story.
Make sure you use a condom, when reading Worldly booksLMBO!!!
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In the model prayer, why wasn't God name used ?
by nojw86 inwhen jesus taught his followers how to pray why wasnt the name of god used in the model prayer.
our father in the heavens, let your name be sancitied.
with so many people and religions in the world how many would have known the name of god if it were used in that popular prayer.
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Coded Logic
That's a good zinger. I'm going to have to remember this one. -
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First law of thermodynamics vs God vs Big Bang
by EndofMysteries infirst law of thermodynamics, that energy cannot be created or destroyed but changed from one form to another.
how does that fit in with god and the big bang to you?
does it make one make more sense then the other to you?
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Coded Logic
It disturbs me very much trying to understand it.. Correct my thinking..
Something to consider but ultimately the conclusion is personal
- FishermanIn the absence of evidence we shouldn't draw conclusions. When we don't know the answer to something the correct response is, "I don't know." And the problem is you're seeking a answer to a question we don't yet have the answer to. One of the hallmarks of disciplined mind is the ability to handle uncertainty well.
If you genuinely want to correct your thinking, I recommend the following exercise: For the next day or two, online and in real life, I want you to start using the phrase, "I don't know" as much as reasonably possible. With different people when you're asked a question you don't really know the answer to - or even questions you do know the answer to but can get away with feigning ignorance - say, "I don't know" and leave it there. Don't qualify the statement. Don't add anything else. Just say "I don't know" and then full stop.
I know it sounds like a simple task but trust me when I say it's an incredibly informative experience. And it's more than a bit liberating too. JWs are taught they know the answer to everything. It takes a while to deprogram such a deeply ingrained belief/need.
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The Organization is destined to fade away
by suavojr inthe borg might not fall and disappear, but it's sure heading into the oblivion.
they predicted their future in last week's study.. last week during the cong book study they mentioned the following:.
15. to illustrate: a supertanker or a freight train might be awesome in terms of size and power.
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Coded Logic
I don't think most JWs are as loyal as many think. Lots of JWs have egos the size of small planets. They're sincere - sure - but arrogant as hell. And as soon as the Society offends their sensibilities (yes, some JWs do have sensibilities) I don't think most JWs would stick around.
The KH has become a social club. It's no longer a homogenous group of fundamental believers. And as soon as the "cool kids" start leaving - so too will the groupies.
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For Sale: Magic Sandwich
by Coded Logic ini am happy to report to everyone on this site that i have discovered a magic sandwichtm that cures cancer.
for a small one-time payment of your entire life of thursday nights, sunday afternoons, and recruitment work on saturday mornings - it can be yours!
for your peace of mind, i have provided answers to some commonly asked questions:.
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Coded Logic
Dear OrphanCrow,
Thank you for your inquiry. We are constantly striving to refine the Magic Sandwich which includes the bread. Of course, the ingredients never change . . . they just get tastier and tastier. Some consider our switch from barley to wheat to be a "change" but it's really just new taste.
Please provide your name and address and we will schedule for a pair of Ordained Sandwich Makers (and a pre-teen child that got stuck in the car group) to come by your house to tell you how bad everything is in your life and invite you to try a bite of our Magic Sandwich.
Sincerly,
The Great Bread (GB)
PS: Do not speak to any former Magic Sandwich partakers. They will try to corrupt your mind with the three great evils (facts, reason, and evidence). Also, don't read about us online. And DEFINITELY don't watch any videos on Youtube about us.